Posts by Franklin Massey

86

Are you a fader, Df'd, DA'd, or Still In?

by brotherdan in

i thought this would be an interesting poll that would show everyone the backgrounds of all of us when we left, if we have.. for myself, i am not df'd, but i am attempting a fade.

i still go to some meetings with the wife to help with kids, but that's it.

no commenting or field service.. what about everyone else?.

Did having a Bethelite travel to your congregation and deliver a talk motivate, encourage, or excite you?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i ask this, because i just got wind that at my hall, we're paying the travel expenses for a bethelite to come and do our memorial talk.

i don't know how much this is going to run us, but i fail to see the practicality of it.

he's not delivering a special memorial outline or anything.

From my experience, most Bethel speakers are no better at engaging and captivating the audience than the average local speaker. We have some fantastic speakers in our circuit and it really shows when, say, at an Assembly, the visiting Bethel speaker puts everyone to sleep while a local brother has the audience's rapt attention. It's a often a title thing. Something to get excited about. Although I appreciate the efforts of any humble brohter who fulfills the assignment to come visit us, expectation usually exceeds reality.

31

If Your Husband (wife) is Still In - -

by Had To Go in

jw
friends

do you vacillate between caring that he/she is still entrapped in this cult and wanting to show them everything you have learned since your awakening and not wanting to rock the boat and therefore just keeping all this knowledge to yourself?

i wonder if it is normal to go back and forth like i do.

one day i want to tell my husband something i may have read here or on another forum and maybe, just maybe i will pique his interest.

Franklin Massey

I started out dropping bombs (too much too soon; caused mental blocks and tension) and moved on to sowing seeds (actually working; mate more open minded now). For me it's all about patience. It's a two person tightrope walk and I want to make it to the other side together.

98

Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different

by Doubting Bro in

jw
friends

i've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.

i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.

quick background on the group:.

Franklin Massey

I'm having a hard time imagining how a semi-secretive, authoritarian, apocalyptic millennialist high-control group can adapt - that is, change - to survive and accomodate the realities of the information-saturated, technologically forward, WikiLeaks-level-transparency-craving socio-cultural environment of the 21st Century, though.

Amazing.

53

2011 Yearbook - "Tracing All Things with Accuracy"

by pirata in

2011 yearbook - "tracing all things with accuracy", p.9-13.

jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.

" christ thus indicated that those who dispense this "food" would be conscientious, prudent, and discerning in providing spiritual food for the household of faith.-matt.

Franklin Massey

This is ridiculous! I'm going to rant and I hope I don't regret the passionate tone later...

First, it was really nice of them pick instances of misquotes or potentially inaccurate information in an attempt to market some kind of "Writing Department Gold Standard" to JWs. A Newton story that hinted at a Designer, a Gandhi quote that almost no one would argue with whether it was true or not, and spider silk?! Seriously?! None of these things have any significant bearing on JW doctrine and are low risk admissions. How about discussing changes like 1914, organ donation/blood fractions, water canopy theory, etc? Of course they wouldn't, because they don't want to remind JWs of how drastic some of those changes were (if the avg JW even knew of the old interpretations in the first place!). By featuring "adjustments-lite" they made a low risk, cowardly, self serving move.

Second, this is damage control. Many JWs smell something fishy either in an odd remark in an assembly talk, a hardline statement in the WT, or in ever shifting "New Light." With the unlimited amount information at their fingertips via the internet, big questions can be answered in a few minutes. Claims can be verified in seconds. The Jehovah's Witness Wikipedia entry contains some scandalous accounts that most publishers don't know about. What if a publisher saw these claims and had doubts? Well, the yearbook says Wikipedia isn't trustworthy. For most dubs, that's all they need to go back blissfully to Imagination Land. Same with scientific claims. If a JW watched a nature show that presented compelling information for evolution and then had doubts about the JW version of Creation, the WT, through this yearbook entry will soothe their doubts with their "impressive" (please note sarcasm) library of thousands of books and their access to even larger libraries with all the perfect and accurate and well researched information that you will find in the unadulterated pages of the WT magazine (again, sarcasm).

I'm really upset about this because there are several people close to me who have noted the inaccuracies, inconsistencies, hyprocrasy, and flip-flops over the years. They have that little feeling that something isn't right in one way or another. But they're loyal and they want so badly for the WT to be right. So they'll read this mildly persuasive bit of swill in the yearbook and regress right back to robot mode. Well played, WT. Well played. You know how to control your adherents all too well.

8

What would happen if a JW writes a book on evolution?

by Nobleheart in

jw
friends

i don't know if that's ever happened: a jw writing a thesis, an article or even a book supporting the theory of evolution.

i know many jw don't have the needed qualifications for the above, but let's assume someone actually did that.

i know there are a few jw.

Franklin Massey

Great question! I know of some who have done college papers on evolution. Those would never be seen in the general public though. My guess is that the investigation would run deep. Just writing a straightforward paper on evolution may not be grounds for a DF/DA. However, if the Bible or God were called in to question, that would be another story. The writer would be asked about how believing evolution fits with their JW beliefs. The questions would eventually lead to, "Don't you trust the Faithful and Discreet Slave to provide the proper information at the right time?" Tricky.

24

Beards vs. Bow Ties: Which is more "immodest" or attention drawing?

by Open mind in

if you were on a hiring panel for a new chair of the federal reserve board, would either a neatly trimmed beard or a bow tie even register on your dress and grooming "radar"?.

i'm talking ben bernanke, (current chairman of the fed).

richard abrahamson, secretary/treasurer of the wtb&ts of pennsylvania since 2000. i looked all over and couldn't find a picture of him, but he's famous for his bow ties.

Franklin Massey

miseryloveselders said, "By the way, there's not a gay bone in my body..."

I could have a lot of fun with that one but I'll exercise restraint and refrain from obscene jesting.

35

Attended The Watchtower Study Today (GAG ALERT)

by im stuck in in

jw
friends

went to the meeting today.

what a ra ra to be zealous in preaching sales meeting.

i was totally disgusted at the outright deception that they are spewing out.. .

Franklin Massey

I couldn't wait to get on here and post about yesterday's study so I'm glad there is already a thread started.

1974/5 has been mentioned several times in this thread already in jest but at my hall IT ACTUALLY WAS COMMENTED ON! First one brother mentioned growing up around 1975 and seeing all the increased activity and fervor leading up to that year. Then he said, "It came and went. So the lesson for us is, we are EVEN CLOSER NOW and we NEED TO STAY FOCUSED and not let anything slow us down." Nods and grunts of approval.

The next comment was someone mentioning how in the 80s, our congregation was growing and we had lots of Bible studies and people getting baptized and then he said, "but it's nothing like that anymore. We are struggling. But as long as just one more person comes in to the truth, then it was worth the wait. We need to trust that Jehovah will not delay Armageddon. It is closer than ever."

Imagine if your boss told you that you were going to get an increase in pay, "very soon." You would be excited and would work harder than ever to assure that you would get the raise. A few weeks go by, no raise. A few months go by, no raise. You ask your boss about it and he says, "Oh, it's coming very soon. Keep working hard, in fact, now is the time to increase your output! Your raise will make it all worthwhile." So you push on, working hard, waiting for the raise. Two years pass, no raise. You're growing tired. Your boss notices your decreased productivity and pulls you aside. "I've noticed that you seem to be having a hard time here at work. Is something wrong?" Yes. You've been working so hard for a reward that was promised to be "very soon." Now it's over two years later and still, no raise. It's discouraging. You feel that you have been misled. "No. You were not misled," says your boss. "Your raise is closer than ever. Keep working." You ask when you can expect the raise. Your boss replies, "I can't tell you. No one can. But it's coming. Keep working."

At some point, you have to ask yourself if that raise was ever coming. Was your boss just using you? Is your boss delusionally optimistic that one day he'll be able to actually pay you the promised raise? What if you died and never got the raise? Would your children and grandchildren still be waiting around to get that raise that was promised to you? Would they go work for the same company, generation after generation, in hopes of getting the raise that you hoped for even though they know that you died without getting what you were promised?

11

Did you blame things on the devil?

by highdose in

jw
friends

it was normal in my cong for people to blame bad things in their lives on the devil, things like the car breaking down, people at work giving you hassle, householders not wanting the mags etc etc.

did no one ever think how stupid and werid this sounded??

?.

Franklin Massey

Two things that REALLY irritate me about the JW grasp on the Devil...

1. When in doubt, play the Devil card. Just when you are about to make a point that could shed some light on the dark, stagnant corners of JW teachings, a JW plays the Devil card. Scenario...

Avg JW: Isn't it neat how Jehovah made the banana so that it was easy for us to eat? It fits right in our hand and even has a little tab so that we can peel it. Laud our God for me makes everything for our enjoyment!

FM: I'm pretty sure that bananas are the way they are today because of human agricultural techniques. Early bananas looked much different and were barely edible. Plus, that's just one fruit that appears to be made for our hands. But what about a pineapple or a coconut? Those buggers are covered in thick shells that make them very hard to eat. Did God not want us to eat them so much that he designed them to be hard to hold or open? There is proof that things can evolve.

Avg JW: Huhm. Well if they did change, they just adapted on a small scale because God made them to do that. Banana can turn in to strawberries by accident, haha. At least we know that we were specially designed from dirt 6,000 years ago to live on this planet.

FM: That might not be a very accurate statement, either. The most basic fossil record and DNA studies show...

Avg JW: Well Satan must have messed with the fossil record to trick us! He is an angel of light, you know! He probably is influencing all those scientists too. The Bible says the whole world is in his power!

How do you argue with that kind of craziness!?

2. The Satan blame game. Someone loses their job, the Devil is trying to discourage them. Someone gets depressed, the Devil has laid a snare. Politicians make bad decisions, the Devil is manuevering things to his favor. A TV commercial shows something scandalous, the Devil controls the entertainment industry.

Is it possible that the economy just sucks, a person may not be a good worker, their seratonin levels are off, they are bummed because they have made bad choices, politicians can be outright greedy liars, and the times-are-a-changin' - all on their own, without the Devil pulling the strings?

61

Hello Everyone...Just Joined Today

by DarioKehl in

i've been reading this thread for some time and finally had the opportunity to create an account.

i am anxious to meet you all and have a support group/active audience over the next crucial months and years following.

background: long-time doubter, giving way to frustration and skepticism beginning about 10 years ago and finally to total admission that this is a cult and that atheism is the way to go.

Franklin Massey

Hey Dario, get off your soap box and quit being so pretentious.

Kidding. Look, I really like your style. Several posters have already mentioned your "remember your audience" comment. That's imoprtant because the first few times I started so seek out opinions other than the WTs, I was scared right back into the same old way of thinking by overly dramatic and hostile "apostate" sites. I understand that they have issues they feel need addressed, I just disagree with the method in which they choose to address them.

This was great: I feel very strongly that JWs who discern the palatable change in tone and environment within the bOrg need an outlet--a place to go to that will not make that initial click of the mouse so painful when they begin their journey of independent thinking. When debating, it's very important to engage them on their terms and try to embolden their naturally-driven instinct to search for understanding.

This is AMAZING! I wanted to see multi-headed beasts come out of the ocean!

Welcome. Looking forward to more posts from you.